Questions about Gödel's incompleteness theorems and related topics.

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How can a statement be known to be undecidable in ZFC without ZFC being inconsistent?

I'm attempting to understand the answer to the question, Is there a statement whose undecidability is undecidable (as in independent, not a decision problem)? The answer appears to be "Yes". However, ...
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0answers
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Elementary references on Robinson Arithmetic, Prim. Recursive fns etc.

I'm in the middle of revising my freely available and much-downloaded introductory notes Gödel Without (Too Many) Tears. (They are a sort of cut down version of part of my Gödel book, and I'm ...
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1answer
134 views

Any “natural” examples of true statements in number theory not provable in 2nd order systems?

I know that there are a few theorems in number theory that are somehow known to be true, but have been shown not to be provable in first-order Peano arithmetic (PA). Have any so-called "natural" ...
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2answers
72 views

Is this possibility ruled out by Godel's Incompleteness Theorem?

From Wikipedia: "The first incompleteness theorem states that no consistent system of axioms whose theorems can be listed by an "effective procedure" (e.g., a computer program, but it could be any ...
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1answer
137 views

Questions on a sentence in ZFC asserting that ZFC has a model

Question 1. Let $\operatorname{con}(\mathsf{ZFC})$ be a sentence in $\mathsf{ZFC}$ asserting that $\mathsf{ZFC}$ has a model. Let $S$ be the theory $\mathsf{ZFC}+\operatorname{con}(\mathsf{ZFC})$. ...
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1answer
79 views

Expressibility; Incompleteness of Peano Arithmetic

I'm working through Peter Smith's book, 'An Introduction to Godel's Theorems'. One small issue I've encountered is how the notion of expressibility is used to prove the incompleteness of Peano ...
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1answer
302 views

Gödelian incompleteness; Smullyan's Puzzle

I am currently doing exercises on the Gödelian theorems; and we are confronted with the introductory puzzle of R. Smullyan's book, which is as follows: Suppose we have a machine which prints strings ...
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3answers
1k views

Why Euclidean geometry cannot be proved incomplete by Gödel's incompleteness theorems?

Wikipedia mentioned the limitation of Gödel's theorems. According to it, Euclidean geometry doesn't satisfy the hypotheses of Gödel's incompleteness theorems, that is, it cannot define natural ...
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1answer
165 views

Explain/illustrate Goedel's theorems and possible implications to non-mathematicians

I am asked to give a talk about (a) mathematical practice, (b) axiomatization, (c) Gödel's theorems and (d) possible antimechanist arguments based on the incompleteness theorems (as mentioned in P ...
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6answers
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Does Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem really say anything about the limitations of theoretical physics?

Stephen Hawking believes that Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem makes the search for a 'Theory of Everything' impossible. He reasons that because there exist mathematical results that cannot be proven, ...
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2answers
138 views

Formalizing proof of Godel sentence's non-provability?

In the question What does it mean for something to be true but not provable in peano arithmetic? Henning Makholm states, "...he [Godel] gave a (formalizable, with a few additional technical ...
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1answer
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Can we determine which statements are incomplete due to Godel?

Due to Godel's incompleteness theorems we know that there are true statements in a system that cannot be proven with that system. My questions are 1) can we tell which statements in a system are the ...
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13answers
7k views

Can someone explain Gödel's incompleteness theorems in layman terms?

Can you explain it in a fathomable way at high school level?
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1answer
101 views

Impossibility of theories proving consistency of each other?

By Godel's second incompleteness theorem, a consistent theory (to which the theorem applies) cannot prove itself consistent. I learned that it's also impossible to have a pair of consistent theories ...
5
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3answers
610 views

P vs NP and Gödel

I apologize for the, perhaps, silly question. My impression, as a layman, is that Gödel Incompleteness Theorem should rule out the possibility that P=NP. Is that true or there are deeper technical ...
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4answers
142 views

Is every theorem of PA true in the standard model of number theory $N$?

My understanding is that every theorem $\phi$ of $PA$ is true in $N$ because $N$ is a model for $PA$, $N\models PA$. By completeness of first order logic, "$PA\vdash\phi$" implies that "if $N\models ...
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2answers
81 views

Why does undecidability of arithmetic not follow from that of first-order logic?

As far as I understand, first-order arithmetic incorporates first-order logic. It is a fact that a first-order logic with at least two binary predicates is undecidable. Doesn't this imply immediately ...
9
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1answer
268 views

Freeman Dyson's example of an unprovable truth

Freeman Dyson has claimed that $$\nexists m,n \operatorname{Reversed}(2^n) = m ^ 5 $$ (where $\operatorname{Reversed}(l)$ just is the reverse of the digits of $l$ in base 10), is probably an ...
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1answer
41 views

Are there complete formal systems?

I am relatively new to logic, so forgive my ignorance. My question is: Are there any formal systems that are deemed complete? If so, how did we prove they were complete and which are they?
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1answer
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Completeness of a Sub Theory of Number Theory

When I was an undergraduate I had a philosophy professor tell me that if you took the axioms of number theory with only addition or only multiplication then the resulting theory was decidable. It is ...
0
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1answer
88 views

differentiate the terms deductive system, model/structure, formal system, first-order logic

I can not bring the terms deductive system, model/structure, formal system, first-order logic into order in my head ;-) It seems to me that they are not overly used in a consistent manner and ...
2
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0answers
83 views

Minimal number of variables in a ZFC-undecidable sentence?

Let $\phi$ be a sentence of set theory. In Prenex form, $\phi$ can be written $$ {\bf Q}_1 x_1 {\bf Q}_2 x_2 \ldots {\bf Q}_n x_n \ \ \psi(x_1,x_2, \ldots ,x_n) $$ where each ${\mathbf Q}_i$ is ...
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5answers
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What is the difference between Completeness and Soundness in first order logic?

Completeness is defined as if given $\Sigma\models\Phi$ then $\Sigma\vdash\Phi$. Meaning if for every truth placement $Z$ in $\Sigma$ we would get $T$, then $\Phi$ also would get $T$. If the previous ...
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5answers
688 views

Are (some) axioms “unprovable truths” of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem?

Like any math newbie, Godel's Incompleteness Theorems are easy to understand in general layman's terms, but difficult to understand beyond the typical "liar's paradox" and "barber's paradox" type ...
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1answer
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Problem with completeness theorem and $\mathsf{Con(ZFC)}$

Using the reflection theorem we can prove in $\mathsf{ZFC}$ that for any finite $\Lambda\subseteq\mathsf{ZFC}$ there is some limit ordinal $\gamma$ such that $R(\gamma)\models\Lambda$. Then by the ...
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1answer
54 views

Are forcing techniques possible to automate for mechanized reasoning?

Looking at Cohen's success at proving independence of the Axiom of Choice and the Continuum Hypothesis, I was wondering if it was possible to mechanize forcing techniques for the purpose of proving ...
6
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2answers
167 views

What is the notion of truth used in Godels incompleteness theorem?

First-order logic is complete & sound. The notion of truth used here is model-theoretic. Informally Godels incompleteness theorem says that for a sufficiently strong formal language there are ...
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2answers
69 views

Completeness condition in Gödel first incompleteness theorem superflous

Wikipedia says: Theory is complete if it is a maximal consistent set of sentences. Than it says: Any effectively generated theory capable of expressing elementary arithmetic cannot be both ...
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1answer
82 views

Looking for counterexamples where the output of a computable function always has a computably checkable property, but PA cannot prove this

Suppose we have a computable function $f$, say over the naturals, and a decidable set $S$ of naturals, such that $f(x) \in S$ for all $x$. In this case, for any specific $x$, there is some specific ...
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1answer
177 views

Consequences of Incompleteness.

Suppose that I'm a working mathematician that has just proved a Theorem, say, in Number Theory. Does Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem imply that I can't know for sure if there exists a proof of the ...
5
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2answers
263 views

$\omega$-consistency and related terms

We know that a theory $T$ is $\omega$-inconsistent if there is a formula $\psi$ such that $T$ proves $(\exists x)\psi(x)$, and $T$ also proves $\lnot \psi(n)$ separately for each standard natural ...
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1answer
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Have I understood the whole Incompleteness business correctly?

I am reading Gödel-Escher-Bach and a good dialogue by Eliezer Yudkowsky and I think I might have understood the nature of the Completeness and Incompleteness theorems (at least regarding Peano ...
2
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1answer
76 views

In Godel's first incompleteness theorem, what is the appropriate notion of interpretation function?

Wikipedia states Godel's first incompleteness as follows. Any effectively generated theory capable of expressing elementary arithmetic cannot be both consistent and complete. In particular, for ...
5
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2answers
123 views

Running programs in nonstandard models of PA

I came across the following problem in several places, to paraphrase: Let $T$ be a recursively axiomatizable, consistent extension of PA. Then there exists some $e$ such that the $e'$th program ...
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2answers
452 views

Where, specifically, did Principia Mathematica fail?

I'm very fascinated by the book Principia Mathematica. From what I've learned so far, Principia Mathematica set out to be, essentially, the bible of mathematics and logic, from which all mathematical ...
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3answers
106 views

On consistency of axiomatic systems

Can an axiomatic system (which is capable of expressing arithmetic) be complete and consistent? Let me explain my motivation a little bit (though it can be a kind of a mess...) I'm aware of Goedel's ...
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2answers
204 views

Is this incompleteness result easier to get than incompleteness of PA?

Gödel's theorem for Peano Arithmetic shows that (under consistency hypothesis on PA) there is a statement which cannot be proved or disproved within PA that is true under the standard model ...
6
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1answer
198 views

Are the Godel's incompleteness theorems valid for both classical and intuitionistic logic?

I am studying an undergraduate text about math logic. The proofs of the two Godel's incompleteness theorems are not completely formal: they are admittedly simpler that the real proofs. For what I ...
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2answers
284 views

Proving and understanding the Fixed point lemma (Diagonal Lemma) in Logic - used in proof of Godel's incompleteness theorem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagonal_lemma I am wondering about the proof of the "Fixed-Point Lemma" $\text{Mod } \Sigma$ is the class of all models of $ \Sigma$. $\text{Th Mod } \Sigma$ is the set ...
0
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1answer
49 views

Definability of Kolmogorov Complexity?

This paper claims to have a proof of Godel's Second Incompleteness Theorem using Kolmogorov Complexity: http://www.ams.org/notices/201011/rtx101101454p.pdf As far as I can tell, it seems to assume ...
4
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1answer
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How to prove primitive recursive functions are definable in Peano Arithmetic?

Background: I'm working on a talk that presents Godel's first Incompleteness Theorem from a computability-theoretic perspective. The idea is to show that the first incompleteness theorem follows from ...
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2answers
346 views

Don't Gödel's completeness and incompleteness theorems contradict each other? [duplicate]

Gödel's completeness theorem: Given a set of axioms, if we cannot derive a contradiction, then the system of axioms must be consistent. Gödel's incompleteness theorem:'Given any consistent, ...
4
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1answer
95 views

Incompleteness theorem and $\mathbb{L}$.

Let $\alpha > \omega$ and $u = \{\ulcorner \sigma \urcorner : \sigma \in \mathrm{Th}(\mathbb{L}_\alpha, \in)\} \subseteq \omega$, where by $\mathbb{L}_\alpha$ we denote as usual the constructible ...
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2answers
294 views

Can an unprovable statement be interpreted as being generally true in some cases?

For example, let's say that Goldbach's conjecture turns out to be unprovable. This would mean that a program cannot devise a way to check whether any counterexample exists. This seems to mean that ...
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1answer
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Can ZFC+A and ZFC+negation of A be both inconsistent where A is some conjecture?

So I know that a conjecture/statement or negation of it plus ZFC can both turn out to be consistent, which means that a statement is not provable. But I would like to go opposite way - and let's say ...
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1answer
168 views

Decidable and recursively-axiomatizable theories

A few questions: If $T$ is a decidable and consistent theory, can there be any theory $T' \subset T$ that isn't decidable? Is there a decidable theory which isn't complete? How can I prove that any ...
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2answers
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Is Gödel's incompleteness theorem provable without any model-theoretic notion?

The entry on Gödel's incompletenss theorem in Wikipedia says: Any effectively generated theory capable of expressing elementary arithmetic cannot be both consistent and complete. In particular, ...
0
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1answer
131 views

Uniqueness of super godel numbers of $\varphi$ and $\neg \varphi$

Let $e_{0},e_{1},...,e_{n}$ be a sequence of wffs or other expressions. Code each $e_{i}$ by a regular godel number $g_{i}$, to yield a sequence of numbers $g_{0},g_{1},...,g_{n}$. Then encode this ...
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2answers
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How is the standard model of number theory specified, and why can't we use that specification to prove any number theoretical sentence of interest?

According to Gödel's incompleteness theorem, there exists a sentence $G$ in the vocabulary of number theory ($N$) which is not provable from any (recursively enumerable) consistent set of axioms $T$, ...
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1answer
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Is there any recursive definition, using only addition, of the set of values of $x^2+y^2$?

There is a recursive definition of the set of squares which uses only addition: $CS(x,y) := IS(x) \wedge IS(y) \wedge x \lt y \wedge \forall z: (x \lt z) \wedge (z \lt y)⇒\neg IS(z)$ $IS(x)⇔ x=0 ...