Tell me more ×
Mathematics Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for people studying math at any level and professionals in related fields. It's 100% free, no registration required.

Let $\kappa$ be an regular uncountable cardinal carrying a $\tau$-structure for some countable language $\tau$. What can be said regarding the existence of ordinals $\alpha <\kappa$ carrying elementary substructures of $\kappa$ ?

This is an (altered) question from an exercise which I am having difficulties solving. The Löwenheim–Skolem theorem doesn't seem to provide any direct insights here.

share|improve this question
Take an ordinal $\alpha_0<\kappa$, use it to generate an elementary submodel $M_0$; if its universe is an ordinal we are done. Otherwise take $\alpha_1=\sup|M_0|$; reiterate. Prove that by $\alpha=\sup\alpha_n$ is an elementary submodel. (I'm not 100% sure, and I don't have time to check this, so I'm not posting as an answer...) Note that this method [if true] guarantees a closed and unbounded collection of elementary structures whose domains are ordinals. – Asaf Karagila Nov 4 '12 at 21:27
Thanks for the quick answer. – user35359 Nov 4 '12 at 21:58
Let me know if it works. :-) – Asaf Karagila Nov 4 '12 at 21:58
$\alpha_i \subseteq M_i\subseteq \alpha_{i+1}$, so $\alpha = \bigcup_i M_i$ is a substructure of $\kappa$. ($M_i$ can be chosen to be of card. $max(card(\alpha_i),card(\tau))<\kappa$ by Löw-Skl, so $\sup M_i<\kappa$) For $i<j$, since both $M_i$ and $M_j$ embed elementarily in $\kappa$, $M_i$ embeds elementarily in $M_j$. By a theorem on chains, all $M_i$ emb.el. in $\alpha$. Since for each $a_1,..,a_n\in \alpha$, an index $i$ with $a_1,..,a_n\in M_i$ exists and $M_i$ emb.el. in $\kappa$, a formula $\varphi(a_1,..,a_n)$ is true in $\alpha$ iff in $\kappa$. So $\alpha$ el.emb. in $\kappa$. – user35359 Nov 4 '12 at 22:17
2  
Looks good. Now you should post this as an answer and accept it (note that you can only accept your own answer after two days or so, in the meantime other people slightly more fluent in model theory than me could also verify that you didn't make any mistakes there). – Asaf Karagila Nov 4 '12 at 22:22
show 1 more comment

Know someone who can answer? Share a link to this question via email, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook.

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.