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Let $S$ be the set of numbers in $X=[0,1]$ that when expanded as a decimal form, the numbers are 4 or 7 only.

The following are the problems.

a), Is S countable ?

b), Is it dense in $X$ ?

c), Is it compact ?

d), Is it perfect ?

For a), I want to say that it is intuitively, but I have no idea how to prove this. I tried to come up with a bijection between $S$ and $\Bbb Z$ but I couldn't find one.

For b), my understanding of a set being "dense" means that all points in $X$ is either a limit point or a point in $S$. Am I right? Even if I were, I am not sure how to show this.

For c), my intuition tells me that it is because it is bounded. So if I could show that it is closed I will be done, I think. But I am still iffy with the idea of limit points, and I am not sure what kind of limit points there are in $S$.

For d), Because I can't show that it's closed I am completely stuck.

I am teaching myself analysis, and I only know up to abstract algebra. Since I never took topology, please give me an explanation that helps without knowledge of advanced math.

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    $\begingroup$ Here's something to start you off. The question, as it's posed, is purposefully tricky. Imagine a bijection from your set $S$ to the set of all numbers in $X=[0,1]$ expressed in their binary expansion, i.e. they can only use $0$ or $1$ after the 'decimal' point. Take $4\mapsto0$ and $7\mapsto 1$. You'll agree that every number has a binary expansion. Thus you may simply considering the cardinality of $X$. $\endgroup$
    – Ian Coley
    May 7, 2013 at 20:31
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    $\begingroup$ (a) No, (b) No, (c) Yes, (d) Yes. Now that you know the correct answers, all you have to supply is proofs. Of course this is impossible until you understand what the statements (a)-(d) mean. But you have a computer and there is a thing called wikipedia. $\endgroup$
    – hot_queen
    May 7, 2013 at 23:17
  • $\begingroup$ >Frank That was actually very helpful. Thank you very much. >hot-queen Thanks for your help. I don't use wikipedia as a math reference anymore since I found a mistake in several articles. $\endgroup$
    – hyg17
    May 9, 2013 at 7:54

4 Answers 4

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Your definition of $S$ is a little ambiguous, as stated. I am going to assume that the following is meant:

$S$ is the set of all points $x\in[0,1]$ such that $x=\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{d_n}{10^n}$ for some sequence of $d_n$s with each $d_n\in\{4,7\}.$

We can then construct $S$ in a similar fashion to the famous Cantor ternary set. We define a sequence of sets $S_k$ recursively as follows:

Let $S_0=[0,1]$.

Given $S_k$, we define $S_{k+1}$ to be the points $x$ of $S_k$ such that $x=\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{d_n}{10^n}$ where each $d_n\in\{0,1,2,...,8,9\}$ and in particular $d_n\in\{4,7\}$ for all $1\le n\le k+1.$

For example:

$$S_1=\left[\frac4{10},\frac5{10}\right]\cup\left[\frac7{10},\frac8{10}\right]$$

$$S_2=\left[\frac{44}{100},\frac{45}{100}\right]\cup\left[\frac{47}{100},\frac{48}{100}\right]\cup\left[\frac{74}{100},\frac{75}{100}\right]\cup\left[\frac{77}{100},\frac{78}{100}\right],$$ and so on. More generally, you should verify that each $S_k$ will be the disjoint union of $2^k$ closed intervals, each of length $10^{-k}$. Hence, each $S_k$ has total length $2^k\cdot 10^{-k}=5^{-k}$.

As a union of finitely-many closed sets, each $S_k$ is closed. You should be able to see that $S$ is precisely the intersection of all the $S_k$s. Why can we then conclude that $S$ is closed?

$S$ is certainly not dense in $[0,1]$, since it is a closed proper subset of $[0,1]$. In fact, it is nowhere dense there, since it is closed, and contains no open set but the empty set. Indeed, if $U$ is a non-empty open set, then it contains an open interval $I$ of positive length, but we can make the total length of the $S_k$ as small as we like by taking $k$ large enough, so $I$ isn't contained in all the $S_k$, whence $I$ can't be contained in $S$, and so $U$ can't be contained in $S$, either.

To see that $S$ is in fact uncountable, let $f:\{4,7\}\to\{0,1\}$ be given by $f(4)=0,f(7)=1$, and define a function $g$ on $S$ by $$g\left(\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{d_n}{10^n}\right)=\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{f(d_n)}{2^n}.$$ I leave it to you to show that $g$ maps $S$ bijectively to $[0,1]$--you must show that $g$ is one-to-one, and maps $S$ into and onto $[0,1]$--so is uncountable. Some basic knowledge of series will come in handy, here.

To show that $S$ is perfect, you need to show that all points of $S$ are accumulation points. Take any point $x=\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{d_n}{10^n}$ in $S$, and let $r>0$. There exists $N$ large enough so that $\frac3{10^N}<r$. (Why?) Let $b_n=d_n$ for all integers $n\ge1$ with $n\ne N$, and let $b_N\in\{4,7\}$ with $b_N\ne d_N$. Putting $$y=\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{b_n}{10^n},$$ it should then be clear that $y\in S,$ $y\ne x$, and $|y-x|<r$. Since $r>0$ was arbitrary, then $x$ is an accumulation point of $S$. Since $x\in S$ was arbitrary, all points of $S$ are accumulation points.


Once you've worked through the details of the above, test your understanding by adapting the arguments to show that the following set is uncountable, compact, perfect, and nowhere dense:

Let $T$ be the set of all points $x$ in $[0,1]$ such that $x=\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{q_n}{4^n}$ for some sequence of $q_n$s with each $q_n\in\{1,3\}$.

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    $\begingroup$ I truly appreciate the great detail and effort you put in for me. It made perfect sense and I think I understand it a bit more. I will try to work on the problem you gave me to see if I really got it down. $\endgroup$
    – hyg17
    May 9, 2013 at 7:57
  • $\begingroup$ Sir, just as in case of binary expansion or in case ternary expansion we takes $d_n$ to be $0$ or $1$ or $0$, $1$, $2$. Why did you here consider $d_n\in \{0,1,2,...,9\}$ ? Please reply $\endgroup$ Sep 7, 2019 at 14:12
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    $\begingroup$ @Akash: Because it is a decimal expansion. In general, for any $k$-ary expansion, each $d_n$ will be an integer from $0$ to $k-1,$ inclusive. $\endgroup$ Sep 7, 2019 at 15:38
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Hints: For b, can you get close to $0.2?$

For c, you are correct that it is bounded, so you need to investigate closed. Let $y \in [0,1]$, but $y \not \in S$. Then there is some digit of $y$ that is not $4$ or $7$....

For d, you need to show that any point of $S$ is a limit of a sequence of other elements of $S$. Let $x \in S$. Can you find a list of other elements in $S$ that get closer and closer to $x$? For starters, can you describe another point within $\pm 0.1$ of $x$?

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S is not countable because any countable subset of S must be a proper subset. To see this, suppose that A is contained in S and A is countable, then its elements can be displayed in some sequence x_1,x_2,...,x_n,.... We shall construct a number x of S that not belongs to A.

If x_n have 4 at the nth decimal position, x have 7 at the nth position. And vice versa.

So x differs from any element of A,hence x does not belongs to A. This completes the proof.

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I see a lot of people saying that the set is perfect, however, I could be wrong, but I would agree that the interpretation above is valid, but not the only one and I offer a different interpretation because the question is ambiguous, as the top answer states. If we are accepting that any digit before the decimal point is zero, then I would argue that it both the set of arbitrary digit length, and the set of infinite digit length are included in this, hence the set given by $S$ is defined such that it is the infinite union of sets $S_n$ such that $S_n$ has $n$ digits after the decimal of that are either $4$ or $7$ all unioned with the set of infinite digit strings, which we can denote by $S_a$. Hence because it is an infinite union it does contain infinite digit strings, and finite digit strings. So any infinite digit string is a limit point, but any finite digit string is not a limit point, so $S$ is not perfect. Maybe I am just interpreting the question wrong, but if I am I don’t see why this isn’t a valid interpretation of the question, as it could be potentially ambiguous. This question is from Baby Rudin Chapter 2 Exercise 17. So if my interpretation is against the typical convention let me know, but otherwise I believe it is an accurate representation and hence the set is not perfect with my reasoning.

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